Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm ready to take the plunge and buy a thickness sander. I'm leaning towards the Delta 18/36. Does anyone have any experience good or bad with this sander or any others? I like the fact that I can thickness a top or back in one pass with the Delta and don't want to spend the extra money for the Performax 22/44. Comments?

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

Have you considered the double drum sanders? I have a General International, 24 inch, that I load with 80 and 120 grit paper, it sands up to .......24 inches......in one pass. This is it:



I know that this machine exists in a number of other brands also: like Grizzly, King etc!

Options, always there's options!

Shane

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Canada

Hi Shane!!
About how much does this General cost??
Approx....

Thanks, Walter

Hi Walter,

I am up in Canada where it is listed on the House of Tools website for $1999 CDN and $1717 USD. I bought it with a 20 inch planer and a 24 inch re-saw and I know I didn't pay close to 2 G's for it but I can't re-call exactly what I did pay, so I think you can find it cheaper than that.

I just checked Busy Bee Tools website and a Craftex (looks the same but a differnet paint job) is $1625 CDN.

Hope this helps!

ShaneShane Neifer38607.8077546296

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Canada

I use the Delta 18/36. Very happy with it.

Jimmy,
I have the delta sander and I think its OK. In the past I have had trouble with the paper coming off the roller but I seem to be the only I've found that has had this problem. Now I spray the roll with Scotch 77 spray adhesive and no more problem. I use the sander all the time, have had it for approx 5 years.
It seems to work best with light cuts at full speed.
I was able to set mine up so I can sand within about .002 across a top.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

I have the general and it is great. The craftex and others (Toolex, Grizly, King etc) may look the same and they are even made in the Same factory but when General has a run done for them they are made to much higher standards (they actually send there techs from Canada to oversee the operation) and if you check out the weight you'll see that the General is about 100lbs heavier which in my experience says better and more hevey duty. When I bought mine (about 10 months ago) I tested a number of others that loked the same and you couldn't even compare them. The General's list price is actually $2,900 CDN but Genetral has lowerd the Price to $1,900 CDN for now, Who knows how long the price will stay down but even at $2900 it is a good deal. The other thing to think about is that General tools hold there value. A friend of mine has a number of general tools he bought about 15 years ago and he can get more for them now than when he bought them. Downside of the General is that unlike the other brands where you can find some good deals on used tools You will rarely find a used General.

I have the Delta 18/36 and it is great. I haven't had any problems with the strip comming off the roller and I don't recommend gluing the paper on. I can change the strip in about 5 minutes. I bought mine factory re-conditioned. I looked a the performax but I felt the design of the Delta was better. That' my 2 cents.

I have a Performax 16-32 and it has held up very well over the last 15+ years with no breakdowns or problems. If I had it to do over again I would look into a wide belt sander. The Performax is very accurate but pretty slow compared to a belt sander. It will also eat paper when sanding resinous woods (dark purple EIRW, Bubinga, Padauk, cherry, hard maple, etc...).

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I bought my Delta used, ans the feed motor gets pretty hot, which is an aberration. I use a fan (Hmmm, still gotta call them and speak to a KNOWLEDGABLE serivce rep...)

I like it , but have nothing to compare it to. I was within seconds of picking up a Performax from layaway, but alas my wife said no. A few weeks later I saw one in somone's garage and made an offer for half of the Performax

I like my American made Wood
Master

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

I have owned a Delta for 6 or 7 years, and have some issues with it. My
first complaint is with the quality of Delta's paper: I wish the grit
dimensions were more tightly controlled, particularly in the coarser sizes.
Also, the platen on my sander need to be reground to approach
acceptable evenness of sanding. I never noticed the 10 to 15 thousandths
extra thickness on the edges when I was sanding cabinet doors, but it
sure was a problem for soundboards. I will get a General or Woodmaster
someday.

What Tim said....

I have had m 16-32 for about 2 year and it has worked great. You can change the paper in about a minute. It is not wide enough for what you are looking for, but for the part time guy like me it is great! You have to balance the narrower width with the fact that you are saving on paper. And Tim is right when it come to resinous woods (Cocobolo is what I have done a fair bit of work with) you go through a lot of paper.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

I know a lot of people don't like Grizzly but look at this:

General International 24'' Dual Drum Sander - 1720US


Main motor 3HP, 230V, 1PH.
Conveyor motor 1/4HP.
Maximum sanding width 24'' (610mm).
Maxiumum thickness 5'' (127mm).
Minimum thickness 1/4'' (6mm).
Minimum length 5'' (127mm).
Drum diameter 5'' (127mm).
Variable feeding rates from 6 to 30 fpm.
Heavy duty base and frame.
High quality conveyor belt.
Table height controlled by large hand wheel.
Magnetic safety switch.
Dual 4'' dust ports.
Depth scale in SAE and metric.
Separate switch for conveyor belt.
463 lbs (210kg),

Grizzly G1066R 24" Drum Sander - 1,325.00


5 HP, 220V drum motor drives 2 aluminum sanding drums
Handles stock up to 23-1/2" and 4-1/4" thick
1/4 HP Conveyor motor provides 11 FPM feed rate
Sand paper installs easily onto the drums
All steel and ball bearing construction
2 - 4" dia. dust ports for easy hook-up to a collection system
State-of-the-art computer balanced drums
Powder coated paint
Approximate shipping weight: 430 lbs.

For the same price as the General you can get the Grizzly 24" with Variable Feed Rate Control.

I've never had a problem with their stuff, we've got a Grizzly resaw, oscillating spindel sander, 14" bandsaw w rise and one of their dust collectors.

They also have pretty great tech support.

I accidentally left the feed rollers on the resaw loose and they came off and got sucked into the blade, they expressed me brand new feed rollers free of charge.

The only problem we've had with their stuff that wasn't out own fault was their jointer had faulty wiring on a breaker in it. They helped us fix the problem over the phone.Jason38608.0091319444

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CVT Inc.
A tour of our shop (Somewhat outdated)
My Personal eBay profile. BCWoodBug

Uh, the General has a variable speed as well and don't believe the 5 HP for the Grizzley. Hp is meaningless as it can be tested different ways. I am surprised that the Grizly is only 30lbs lighter but still, 30lbs is a bit of weight, where do they cut back to get the savings. I am not saying the Grizzley is a bad machine, it's good for the price which I believe is about $1000CDN below the General List Price. From what I hear it is as good as the Craftex and toolex machines. The only problem I have heard of with General tools is that they are more expensive than the others but right now with the sales they are having they are in the same ball park. If you can get a General for the same price, get the General, it is much more machine. Mind you I'll admit that the Wood master mentioned earlier is also a really good machine,right up there with General. I know two different shops that have both of these machines in them. Both had a Grizzley and then got a General. From what they have both told me the General runs 8 hours a day and the Grizly only gets used when they need an extra machine. Just my opinion of course.arvey38608.0597453704

I know what your saying ;)
I didn't notice it had variable feed, so the comparable models are really the same price.

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CVT Inc.
A tour of our shop (Somewhat outdated)
My Personal eBay profile. BCWoodBug

Arvey is right about HP ratings. Many years ago most manufactures stopped rating their motors at continious duty HP rating and started rating their motors at Max HP. Truth is many rate at potential or peak max HP. This is as much as 30% greater than the continious duty HP delivered. Max Hp is now pretty much the standard industry wide.

I have a Performax 16-32, and I've been generally happy with it. I bought it used for about half the price of a new one, so I sure can't complain about the price.

I find the 16" width a bit limiting, though. Even though I build classicals (which are almost never wider than 14.5"), frequently the stock I'm sanding down is a bit wider than 16", and the sander leaves a lip there. Rotating the stock gets rid of the lip, though.

With my setup, my vacuum and drum sander are on a single 15 amp circuit. As a result, I can usually only rotate the crank 1/8 turn (about 0.008" removed) per pass when thicknessing hardwoods. Also, for resinous woods, like cocobolo for example, I've found that 80 grit works much better than 120, and that I still must frequently clean the drum. Performax does mention in the manual, however, that one can soak the paper rolls in turpentine to remove the stuck on resin. Haven't tried this yet, but I intend to.

If I could afford to buy a new drum sander, I would look seriously at the Delta, just because of the little bit of extra width. But I can still recommend the Perfomax, given the reservations I mention above.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Back in the "old days" we had it hard we had to plane everything by hand ,remember the tennis elbow?

[QUOTE=rick218] Back in the "old days" we had it hard we had to plane everything by hand ,remember the tennis elbow?[/QUOTE]

I still do a bunch of hand planing, but ussaly order special sets pre sanded for me because I dont own a drum sander yet.

I really like Grizzly tools, and if I didn't have a drum sander already, I would buy one of their's. I hear great things about their new 18" sander...the $3000+ unit. If only I had the cash...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Got the redwood Friday Don. Really nice tone and supper silking. Check went out today

The Delta is a home shop machine. It can be nursed through the job of
thicknessing guitar plates accurately, by taking tiny cuts at low feed
speed, and changing the clogged paper about once per guitar. I'm
looking forward to replacing mine.

The Woodtek from Woodworkers Supply looks identical to the General
(really identical, like same factory, not just kinda similar, like the Griz),
and costs a lot less. But wide belt seems to be the way to go, if you can
afford it. I know of someone who raves about his 18" wide belt Griz.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Wide belt sanders are far superior. The belt does not heat up so the resins do not tend to be deposited onto the belt as they do on the drum sanders. But the price tag is the down side. One of my customers has a 24 inch wide belt sander and it works great! But I can do quite well with mine also. One of the things with drum sanders that is important to know is that the feed rate needs to be high. That's right HIGH! The reason is that slow feed rates allow more heat to build on the wood surface and that transfers to the belt and the drum and everything goes downhill from there. So thinner passes at faster feed rates will give you longer belt life and a better sanding job.

Shane

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Canada

Thanks Shane

You learnt something new every day, my natural inclination has been to feed slower if I am having trouble with clogging, I have some Coco to sand so will try that method.